The most important stage in the development of all individuals is adolescence. This is the time when our outlook on life, our value system, and most importantly our emotions are formed and packaged to go with us most of our natural lives.

All children are born into very different situations (rich, poor, median, black, white, two parents, one parent, etc.) which play a key role in the development of a child. All of these things (things I like to refer to as “ingredients”) are needed to be accessible to children. Some are more important than others (i.e. a child does not need to be born to rich parents in order to have a healthy development). In many cases, there are very serious consequences when at least one of these main ingredients are not in place.

During childhood, a child will experience a plethora of emotions. It is up to parents to show kids how to best place these emotions. For example, my kid may come to me one day and be apparently upset about the fact that one of the friends refused to play with him. To him, this may feel like the end of the world–to me as an adult, it may seem to be no big deal Why? Because I learned from a very young age how to handle rejection thanks to my parents. Now it is my job to do the same with my children.

When a father or mother for one reason or another neglects to be attentive to the emotional needs of a child, it leaves a hole that the child will sometimes spend years searching to fill. When a man refuses to show vulnerability in his emotions at home, that can contribute to future problems in the child. When a mother doesn’t take the time to nurture her little girl into womanhood (beyond the “how to use a tampon” or “what is a menstrual cycle” stuff), that can also cause some future problems.

Add child abuse to this fragile mix (which by the way does not happen to all homosexuals) and you can imagine the damage that is done to a child.

The “holes” in a child’s self esteem become evident when a child reaches school age when they are placed in an environment full of comparisons and contrasts. This is usually a very harsh environment to most children because at that age, they are still formulating their own identities and do not need the “assistance” of some kid who wants to make fun of his/her current inadequacies (this is why I am a strong supporter of homeschooling to at least high school age).

Sex has more to do with the act, it is something that God has given to us to celebrate the EMOTIONAL bond we have with our spouse. As I have tried to explain here, if those emotional issues are not addressed during adolescence, homosexuality could be the result. But please, don’t think it is just homosexuality. Guys who got the “playa” thing going on are just as damaged in my estimation.

Despite all of what I have just said, no matter how “unfair” life may have been to us, we still make decisions on how we run our lives.

The very graphic way the pastor described anal sex (something that is common in the homosexual community and is practiced in the heterosexual community) is right on the money. Any doctor will tell you that the anus simply is not designed for the male organ or anything else other than for the “exit door” for waste. There is nothing reproductive (the number one reason for sex–remember when God said “be fruitful and multiply”?). If you study the changes the body of a man and a woman goes through during intercourse, you will see that ultimately it is for that one thing–reproduction. Sure, we may get enjoyment in the process, but it is never a mistake when a child is conceived–this is how God designed it.

So I can agree with you that the way he delivered the message (let’s not forget that neither one of us was there) seemed to be kinda graphic, but I am taking the meat out of what he said and throwing out the bones.

If you are interested, I would encourage you to visit some of the links that I have provided in this posting. There are plenty of testimonies posted on those websites that will give you a greater insight. These sites are very helpful because they cover other dynamics that would be too exhaustive for this site.

Like you Duane, there are things the pastor said that I agree with and that I disagree with.

I am a right-winged Christian.

Yes I hold to the biblical truth that homosexuality is in fact a sin.

However, I do not believe the way many Christians handle the issue or how they deal with homosexuals is often very Christian.

A homosexual is a sinner, just like I as a heterosexual am a sinner.

Homosexuality is not a sin I have ever commited, yet I have commited sins that I am sure not all homosexuals have commited.

The point being that the homosexual is not more of a sinner than am I just because he/she is a homosexual.

Not many homosexuals will consider changing their lifestyle because a Christian has screamed at them.

I believe when a Christian speaks to a homosexual about homosexuality that Christian must of course be truthful, but they can also be tactful.

That said,

I do believe there is a powerful homosexual agenda and lobby.

I do believe that agenda is a danger to the homosexual and to the whole of our society.

And I do believe the Christian has an obligation where able to attempt to preserve and encourage a Godly society.

Let me take a stab at that question rhythm. The Bible outlines sin as being conceived in thought, and born in the action. While many of us, inlcuding Christians try to split hairs with the concepts of thoughts and desires, we often create bondage of guilt where not necessary, and license where retraint is needed.

If the thought of pornography flashes through my mind, that is not a sin. If the thought of pornography dwells in my mind, I am nurturing a desire that will lead me to actually sin. I use this analogy because, I was formerly in complete bondage to pornoraphy. The line between the thought and the act of viewing it, became thinner, blurred, and completely non-existent over time. All the while, the desire that was a result of the activity create a physical effect (craving), as well as a spiritual effect (too numerous to list).

Accepting the concept of sin, as in the context of the Bible, requires us to accept what God says about the human heart in Jeremiah 17:10-11, and in the entire book of Romans. Coming into the presence of Christ brings a lot of stuff in the open about our spiritual state and it’s effect on out bodies. Fighting desires rings similar to “fleeing temptation”, and is always a portion of the process to submit out will.

Christians recovery programs should be intended to bring the person into submission to Christ, allow for a self evaluation in comparison to disciplines outlined in the Bible, and heal the person from the inside out.

chris, i should have added to that:

thank you for attempting to explain the way you did. it came across as very educational, rather than condescending or “holier than thou.” i think sometimes people get so caught up in being right that they have a hard time explaining things to non-Christians without becoming indignant. thanks.

God bless you on the struggle,

I have been free for over 4 years of homosexuality!

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nyeluscommunity/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EX-GAY_MUSLIMS/

Rhythm,

most Christians hold to the belief that sin is anything contrary to the chracther of God.

I believe this.

If this is a correct understanding of sin, then we are all sinners and all in need of reconciliation with God.

It is because the fact that we are all sinners that I have a problem when some of my fellow Christians engage a homosexual and act as though they themselves are pure as the driven snow.

The bible does indeed take a very serious and hard stand against homosexuality, but my sin of having stolen also separates me from a pure and holy God just as does the sin of homosexuality.

I know a Christian who struggles with homosexuality.

He has never given in to the desire, but the desire is there.

Some Christians are shocked when they meet him and he shares the fact that he struggles with a desire for homosexuality.

But they forget, they too struggle with sin.

At least they should.

If they don’t struggle with sin then it simply means they have given into the sin.

so what does your religion say of people who have gender differences? because, as i’m sure you’re well aware of, all humans do not fall into the “male” or “female” categories. and many of those people (as well of many of us who do fall into those categories) cannot reproduce. so are those “lesser” people?

I think the Bible refers to people as you described as eunuchs, or males with nonfunctioning testes, etc. There is not much said of people with this condition in the Bible, and what is said is only one of giving a description.

And to the extent of the quality or worth of a person, I would have to say the functioning of their sexual organs is irrelevant, as it would be in the case of a woman whose womb was barren, or a man who is a parapelegic and unable to exercise his designed sexuality. God reveals His handiwork in the person first spiritually, then physically.

My point was not to condemn homosexulity as the ultimate sin, because 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NIV) states: “Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters, nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.”

Homosexuality was not the only sexual sin I saw in that indictment. And to be sure I do not come off as “holier than thou”, 10 charges are listed in that indictment, and if not for the sacrifice of Jesus, I would be guilty as charged on about 6-7 of them for my past deeds. I don’t think Christianity is all about a list of do’s and don’ts, as it is about a person willfully submitting to what God had intended in the first place when he created us.

Even at that, living in a sinful world will not always equal a Good Input:Good Output result. At the very least, if we really believe God (as described in the Bible) is real, then we can eliminate what we choose to do…or choose not to do. If I’m straight, that includes being with women I’m not married to. If I struggle with homosexual desires, the same applies regardless of gender.

As not to takeup all of Duane’s bandwidth, feel free to e-mail me. I would be happy to correspond.

I really dont think it’s fair for Christians to shove their beliefs down the throats of other people, especially when there is really no objective obligation on my part to believe in your doctrine

For starters, thanks for your comments. It is always good to read a full array of thoughts on this subject.

How are Christians “shoving” down their beliefs down your throat? Apparently you have made up your mind on how you want to live your life–that is your choice. What you do in the privacy of your own home is not anybody’s business but yours. One of the main problems that I have with the homosexual movement (which is fueled by activists) is that it equates itself to the status of “racial minority”. You may get all the wonderful feelings when you are with your significant other, but in the end it is all about sexual preference–that’s it. You enjoy the fact that your friendship with another woman is not just limited to “good conversation”. Again, if that is how you want to live, that is your decision (no protest here). However, at the end of my day, I am still black.

Hopefully, we can continue this discussion. Thanks again for taking the time to express your feelings.

I apologize for coming across like that — seemingly vehement and all.

Quite frankly, there are some aspects of your code of morality that I disagree with. But morality in itself is relative and varies from person to person and community to community — that’s only expected.

What I was aruging against was proselytizing specifically. I guess i didn’t make that very clear.

Of course you have the right to voice your own beliefs just as I do. I only experience problems when people try to proselytize me and attempt to get me to act strictly in accordance with their world view, when I apparently hold differing beliefs. Basically what I’m saying is that I don’t feel obligated to live my life by Christian values especially when i’m not Christian. If Christian values and ideology go along with your personal experiences and truly deeply move your soul, then by all means, embrace your theology. I encourage that. It’s just that I feel that religion itself is a PERSONAL SUBJECTIVE matter. Religion seeks to explain the unexplainable, and clearly when we start getting into concepts of omnipresent, omnipotent beings or forces, we run into dead ends in terms of conventional, objective logic. So thus, when it comes to religion, “truth” whatever that may be, in my opinion, is only subjective (or spiritual, which are really under the same umbrella). What moves your soul may not move my soul. We all have different experiences or come from different backgrounds that influence the way we percieve the world.

But I guess when I argue against proselytizing, I’m actually arguing against one of the tenets of your beliefs, because to my knowledge you are to preach the gospel to every living creature. I really dont know what to say with regard to that. You do your thing and I’ll do mine.

Once again I apologize for coming off as hostile. It’s just that I’m as eager to defend my way of life for myself as you are for yourselves.

Duane,

you said it right. its the homosexual movement –activist driven– which is the face America sees all the time. Although they try to pretend that they are not. Its unfortunate that ryhthm brought up Keith Boykin because he has issued so many extreme anti-Bible statements on his website, I dont see how anyone can believe that he is any different from the so-called white “glbt” activists he attempts to distance himself from. That’s just posturing to sell his gay snake oil to the black community.

duane, i understood it with boykin because it was explicitly stated. i apparantly missed your implications. however, there’s no need to (read this slowly) p-a-t-r-o-n-i-z-e.

[...] est with you, I wanted to just pass over it because I had just did a piece entitled “Homosexuals and the black church” that is still generating comment [...]

I am currently writing my thesis on “homophobia in the Black Church” and I was wondering if anyone would provide their perspective on a few questions.

1. How come the phenomenon of homophobia is so pervassive in the Black church?

2. Why do our families denie that we are apart of the family and the congregation?

3. Why do LGBT individuals sit by silently and allow themselves to be degraded in such a public manner.

4. Do you think LGBT individulas are accpeted in the church or tolerated and why?

5. Do you think LGBT individuals are exploted for the social purpose of economic gain via the music ministries?

I would appreciate your repsonse and you can also e-mail your responses to me at: Bryantklmsw@yahoo.com

Rob,

Until you have met me and know me, please don’t throw your baseless assumptions this way. What is more offensive, me telling you the truth on this whole issue, or me remaining silent only to know you as yet another sad statistic of young men who have chosen your lifestyle only to find themselves either diseased or caught in a never-ending string of relationships that still leave you unfulfilled at the end of the day? You may not like what I have to say, but time will prove me right.

Someone once said “hurt people Hurt people”. Who was the one that just resorted to the name-calling here? In this piece, never once did I use any kind of derogatory language to describe gays, but yet you have done so freely towards me.

And you are offended?

I challenge you to follow the links I have provided above that will prove to you over and over again with the lives of real men that homosexuality is not natural–it is only a sexual choice. What you do in private is YOUR CHOICE. All I am simply doing is showing you the effects of YOUR CHOICE on society.

You are always welcome to come back to continue this conversation. All I ask is that you would refrain from the name – calling. Respect is a two-way street here.

Just thought I’d point something out.

“On the subject of homosexuality in the church, let me add my two cents. Homosexuality is the most easily identifiable sin, because of the extreme social dynamic that is involved. But it is only one of several sins that exemplify rebellion to God’s design of creation. It is called an abhorration because, in the Book of Genesis, we see God design of creation and it’s function , around two seperate genders. This includes the birds of the air, the fish in the sea, and humans.”

But not starfish.

Have a nice day.